I can’t take it. One of my best friend’s little brother just found out that he’ll be going to Iraq as part of this ‘troop surge.’ It’s making my physically ill. I always have to laugh at the idea of not getting personally involved in one’s work. How is that possible? Just be an apathetic asshole? If you care, you care. If you don’t, well, I bet that makes life easier. Can you move from one to the other without abandoning principles, changing values?

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34 thoughts on “

  1. Bazarov says:

    hmm…interesting question. maybe a new perspective could be possible without having to change any of your principles. I manage to seem to able to view things from vastly different perspectives without having to change my core principles. i’m not sure how it would apply to this case though.

  2. Undecided says:

    Hmm is right! I don’t know if I have the mindpower to try to view things from GWB’s perspective. It would suck to be President, but it would suck worse to not know how to pronounce ‘nuclear.’ Bigger fish to fry, I suppose. I’ve heard that once you’re President, the only people that can relate to you are other former Presidents. I can see that. How else could GHWB and Clinton be such good buddies now? It just totally blows me away how someone who never went to war himself is so eager to put others out there for ‘our benefit.’

  3. Bazarov says:

    I still can’t believe we’re not all going apeshit about invading Iraq. People seem to go about it with the, “Well, the past is the past and what can you do?” type of mindset. We should never have gone in the first place and I don’t see why we haven’t hanged Bush and Cheney for treason (or at the minimum impeached their asses). Invading Iraq was definitely not in the best interest of our country. I also think our Congress needs to grow some fucking balls (or wear their ovaries on the outside for the ladies) and take back the power that was given them by the Constitution. What’s this signing over of Executive power horseshit? We haven’t been in a legal war since WWII…Congress has to declare war, not Presidents on news breaks on TV. Arg. And the power of the purse!??! Where’s that? It’s at times like these that I welcome more attacks.

  4. Undecided says:

    I’ll second everything except your very last sentence. I tried to get my parents to move further away from the base after 9/11. It’s giving into the fear, but I was actually on base when 9/11 occurred, and I didn’t realize exactly what was happening, but I got the fuck off base as soon as I could say “I have to go to the doctor later, I’d better go before they shut the gates to all traffic.”

  5. Undecided says:

    Oh yeah, impeachment. Last time I checked it wasn’t illegal to get a blowjob by someone other than your wife. Not respectable, but not illegal. Declaring war without the consent of the people, that’s a lesson we should have already learned at least once. We’re all just so afraid of everything that impeachment seems to drastic. Ah, let’s go find Iraqi Body Count again. That’s drastic.

  6. Anonymous says:

    When you join the military, you abandon, er conceal, your principles. You lose the option to do what you feel is right, instead, you do what you are told. The actions may even go against the commanding officer’s principles, but that’s the nature of the beast. Is the proactive military stance derived from propaganda??When the first attacks happened, I had a 20 min. forewarning. I was in Maryland, of all places with a friend whose dad ranked at WPAFB. Fucking Maryland, where the president’s “secret” lair is.And I know, you all had to remember the president’s jet breaking the sound barrier of Dayton like a week after the attacks. I was tweekin’!

  7. Anonymous says:

    I forgot to touch on impeachment myself. No president will EVER be impeached. He/she will feel it comin’ on and resign. Similar to what my old basketball coach did. Haha! Don’t fuck with the best bitch! Should’ve sued that cunt for slander.

  8. Undecided says:

    That’s TOO drastic. Damn spelling.

  9. Undecided says:

    Yep, that’s why I could never join of my own volition. You’d have to draft me. And wasn’t that a Stealth escort? I didn’t think it was actually Air Force One making the sonic boom. The whole meaning of the event didn’t really sink in for a few years, at least in my mind. Even working on a military base, people just go about their business. You’re right, they’re not encouraged to have opinions…at least not much. I was too busy trying to graduate and find a fucking job. Here we are.

  10. Undecided says:

    I was just adding the last ‘o’ to ‘to’ to make it ‘too’ like it should have been above. I know you know what drastic means, haha! about us thinking impeachment’s too drastic, but not minding the civilian (or military, for that matter!) casualty count reaching the thousands.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Reminiscent of Vietnam, or so I hear. You may actually remember. ;p Meaning the number of casualties is presented daily year after year.

  12. Undecided says:

    When in Rome. So, in the Muslim world, at least, we should be exempting from harm the women & children who have nothing to do with our President’s desire to ‘spread democracy.’ I hear Baghdad University (or University of Baghdad, I dunno) is a ghostown. In America, it’s one thing to be a woman and join the military. That’s admirable. To suicide bomb a line of female college students, not so much.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I feel the people of Iraq needed a Sadaam to keep them in check. Look what happens when they don’t live in fear of the strong arm. Maniac-ism. So he merked an entire region a while back, we formed an alliance with him 2 years later. What’s the real deal with the Bush’s and the former Iraqi government, I wonder.And how about GWB repremanding Iraqi officials for the process of their state sanctioned penalties. That guy has some serious issues.

  14. Undecided says:

    Hypocrisy must make the world go round. The ‘Free’ World that he leads, anyways.

  15. Bazarov says:

    Anonymous, whether or not you realized it, you just provided the Nuremberg Defense…I was just following orders. You don’t invade a country that had nothing to do with an attack on us (Saudi Arabia would’ve been a more reasonable target). But I don’t think you’re gonna make any advance against terrorism with full warfare any longer. If left to its own it will eventually die out all by itself, or concentrate in one area where one bomb could take em all out. In any event, it’s nice to see so many responses! A nerve was obviously touched. Yeah, they’d have to conscript me to get me to go, and I’d probably dodge it. I’m not about to go kill people simply because someone told me to. The only way I’d ever see me joining a military force was if we were wrongfully invaded. I don’t see that happening as long as we have the world’s largest stockpile of nukes. If not impeachment, could we at least tar and feather them?

  16. Undecided says:

    I’ll cut open some pillows…who can get tar? I wonder if a drum of wax would work? Okay, everyone go up one post and have a Momtini. Or not, but don’t hate those that enjoy a little mother’s little helper, moms or not!

  17. Anonymous says:

    Bazarov, I didn’t realize I was emulating the Nuremburg Defense. Isn’t that the focus of the movie ‘A Few Good Men’? Now I can’t get a visual of a half-naked Tom Cruise. Well, thank you for that! Please notice the optimism; Tom is half-naked as opposed to half-clothed.

  18. Undecided says:

    Oh no, here we go with Scientology. AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaiiiiiiieeeeee!

  19. Anonymous says:

    I’m not exactly sure what scientology is. Anyway, back to half-naked Tom.

  20. Bazarov says:

    I haven’t seen that film, but can no longer watch anything with that man in it. He’s silly. No less silly than other believers I suppose, but silly nonetheless. I find it funny how seriously he takes himself. If anyone has a few hours of their life they’re willing to waste, or you like this sort of humor like I do, watch Scary Movie 4. The parody of him on Oprah at the end was rather good, although it’s hard to outdo what he did.

  21. Anonymous says:

    Okay, I just skimmed that stuff. There really wasn’t much substance there. Apparently, I can’t join because they don’t believe in psychiatry. Darn! 🙂 Oh how my stancecon that subject has changed in the past 3 years.

  22. Bazarov says:

    Funny how wikipedia gets to the point more quickly than the official scientology website. I remember going to that place a few years ago to try to find out what they believed in. There’s a reason why they don’t just say upfront what they believe. Travolta and Alley were interviewed and dodged the question too. They basically said, “You couldn’t summarize the Christian faith in a few words, or the entire Bible; it’s like that with scientology.” Sure you can! Conglomeration of hero myth and pagan beliefs all boiled together under a hierarchical church = xianity! Then you get all the schizms, and that’s where the fun’s at, let’s be honest. Jesus is just another hero archetype from the ancients, who somehow magically became whiter as the years passed by. For some reason this jesus fella is lauded as having come up with some great ethical systems even though others, like confucius or siddhartha, came up with pretty much the same shit half a millenium before hand.I guess since the scientologists are a minority they can’t be as open with their inanities as xians. Hubbard was a fucking evil som’a’bitch (as the stereotypical southern sheriffs say).But if you really wanna know what Scientology is, it’s a real-estate scam hahahaha. You should’ve seen the celebrations they had when they got tax exempt status 😉

  23. Undecided says:

    History would be an excellent thing if only it were true.Tolstoy

  24. suntzusays says:

    Technically, Bubba was almost impeached for lying about the bj (not getting one), perjury is illegal, even if its stupid. Nixon would have been fully removed from office, but he resigned, like anon said. But I’d settle for one here too. Relate it to a sports analogy, Rumsfeld got fired like a coordinator instead of the coach getting the heat. Bush deserves the mess. If they had to go in, they botched it. I’m not sure they had to. Single bullets work pretty well if you want to get rid of a tyrant. Even a missile is pretty accurate enough. They can put them through a window with the GPS. As to strong-arms. The Turks during the Ottoman empire put down a few revolts from Wahabbists and Shia’. They were pretty ruthless about it. But there wasn’t any fighting for a while. You might have a point (USSR has the same problem from the mafia, they used to keep it in line). (Saudi Arabia would’ve been a more reasonable target). here here!

  25. Undecided says:

    ah, good call! can’t we all get off on a technicality? haha. yeah, I’ve often wished I could round up the branch of my family we don’t speak to, see if they know a guy. there was a special on PBS once, don’t remember the name of it (ask PM, if he ever shows up here!), that had awesome B&W footage of the history between us and Saudi Arabia, from when they did what we wanted, to now, when we do what they want, seemed to me. Eye-opening.Yes, a resignation would be a breath of fresh air. Counting down to 1-19-09 here! If I hear him say ‘human intelligence on the ground’ one more time….how about some human intelligence in his head? Too full of Bible verses.

  26. suntzusays says:

    All you need to know about Scientology is that the movie Travolta put out on it received the most ‘Razzies’ this side of Catwoman. So I’m guessing it sucked. Please ignore the following: Cruise, Holmes, Kirstie Alley, Beck, Jason Lee, Isaac Hayes, Travolta, etc.

  27. Undecided says:

    Jason Lee? aw, that sucks. I’m also sorry to hear about Leah Remini. I think she’s funny on King of Queens. I can’t tell you how crushed I am to hear Beck’s a nutjob..I like his music! eh, however you wanna get high, I guess…I’ll still try to listen to ya.

  28. Bazarov says:

    Listen to ya! Callin Beck a nutjob because he believes in things which no reasonable person should believe…doesn’t that make every person who claims to be xian a nutjob? Let’s face it, they got just as much evidence to support their case as xians do theirs. All the xians got are more numbers. Is a bias showing here? :p

  29. Undecided says:

    It feels like a long time since I’ve claimed to actually believe in Christianity. You’re not the only one who(m?) I’ve told recently that it’s pretty much just a time-honored family tradition for me anymore. It goes with my heritage, which I’d like to pass on, but I’m not into the dogma anymore. Compared to that, yes, Scientology is downright Cruise-AZY. I’m okay with being biased like that. Now, if I start jumping on Oprah’s couch, please tranquilize me.

  30. Anonymous says:

    But I freakin’ love Travolta! As for this whole conversation, kinda nutty how we ‘cruised’ into scientology. I’m out.

  31. Bazarov says:

    I guess I meant if we’re going to be consistent, shouldn’t we look at any cultish belief set like we do xians? Meaning: Don’t throw out the crazy with the straight jacket. hahaha. If an artist is good, I’ll like their work despite what they believed. Dostoevsky’s a great example. Hard to find a better defender of the faith after the enlightenment. It doesn’t mean I think he’s dead wrong, but that doesn’t keep me from enjoying his work. Cruise, now he’s an ass ontop of being weird, so I can see why people, including myself, would be turned off by him. But don’t change a view on Beck just because he’s a scientologist. From the interview i saw with him, it seems like his belief in scientology is about as determined as yours is in catholicism, if that’s any consolation.

  32. Undecided says:

    I haven’t really enjoyed Travolta much since Grease. Oh shit, and Pulp Fiction, of course.Yeah, being an ass is worse than having cultish beliefs. Exactly: I’m only committed to a few things in life. Guero’s almost as ingrained in me (it’s in the CD player in my car right now) as Catholicism, I’ll not stop listening to it anymore than I would stop watching King of Queens. Same with Tolstoy, he went through the whole debate toward the end of Anna Karenina. I have no idea if I’m coming to the same conclusion as Levin or not, but I won’t stop quoting him if I decide either way (which isn’t likely). That’s what I dislike most about the church, it’s cultishness. I’m just quickly losing interest in theology in general. It doesn’t much matter what I think. If I catch myself praying sometimes, which I do, it’s still not anywhere near believing that God will smite all the Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Scientologists, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and anyone else not on my team. When I say ‘crushed,’ you gotta remember I’m prone to exaggeration, haha!

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